Tuesday, May 09, 2006

Iran's letter to President Bush (full transcript here)

(Note: This letter is very long, but well worth the read if you have time. I have decided to show the letter in its entirety for those who wish to read the actual words of the letter sent to George W Bush without the usual selective editing of our western media).


Read it for yourself Here.

59 Comments:

Blogger JoJo said...

Wow. Thanks for the article.

I like your blog.

May 09, 2006 9:32 pm  
Blogger R2K said...

Hehe they didnt post the next page: the LOVE NOTE!

: )

I dont know what I am talking about.

May 09, 2006 9:53 pm  
Blogger H8TORADE said...

Bush probably shit on himeself when he read that....sat there with that stupid look on his face just like he did on 9/11.....

May 09, 2006 10:24 pm  
Blogger Chicadi said...

As inciteful as the letter is, it's really sad that the same message hasn't been coming more from the American people and the media. We shouldn't need a foreign leader to point this out.

May 09, 2006 10:36 pm  
Blogger jonz said...

He also questions the right of Israel to exist. Which is nice.

_H_ , if you had to choose between living in Tehran, or Washington D.C., what whould you choose, and why?

May 10, 2006 12:00 am  
Blogger _H_ said...

He questions the process which took place to create the nation of Israel Jonz ..

He also talks about hatred of terrorism , Disgust at the horrors of 9/11 , the hope that all the worlds faiths can sit in prayer for peace together, His Hatred of Nuclear weapons , His desires for human rights , his willingness to talk , the acceptance of the deaths of 6 millions Jews .The principle of democracy to allow Jews , christians and Muslims to determine their own fate , poverty in Africa , the suffering of the American people and the hand of friendship . The importance of international law and the offer of peace , Even the suffering of Jewish families during world war 2....

and most important for your dear self , The danger of lies

Nice try Jonz but people can read for themselves .....

As for your questions ... you answer none and ask many ... when you have answered all the questions asked of you on previous threads I will be pleased to oblige...

Islamophobia and xenophobia are not healthy my friend and your hatred of muslims seems to blur your view of reality.

At least your still polite so I thank you for that

:-)

May 10, 2006 12:26 am  
Blogger jonz said...

Good lord at least attempt to be balanced. Do you have a reliable link I can read which is unlikely to be edited?

May 10, 2006 12:43 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jonz

Give it a rest please.What next 'Did you see the part where the evil Iranian suggested the Jews,Christains and Muslims have a referedum on the future of the region. How sick wanting people to be allowed to vote'.

Seriously.The desire for all faiths to sit together in prayer for peace says alot.

May 10, 2006 12:53 am  
Blogger _H_ said...

LOL , it is an exact copy Jonz but if you doubt me Here is the original in pdf format (so it can't be changed) .

That is the very same document that every article and news show is quoting from...

Still you will only see what you want to see anyway.

May 10, 2006 12:59 am  
Blogger jonz said...

Well it's a very articulate piece of Taqiyah, straight out of Robert Fisk's mouth.

Whilst I would love to believe the emotionally soothing words of the Iranian president, it does incontrovertibly appear that such statements are contradicted in the native tongue.

It's quite weird, Bin Laden now speaks the language of the left, and the Iranian President has cottoned on.

"Useful idiots" spring to mind.

May 10, 2006 1:07 am  
Blogger jonz said...

I reserve the right to be utterly cynical of anyone as religious as the Iranian president.

One who takes the words of a religious nutter at face value has no intellectual capability of reasoned analysis. I do not doubt he is intelligent, perhaps would score higher on IQ tests than Bush. However intelligence does not equate to sincerity and goodness of heart, unfortunately.

May 10, 2006 1:11 am  
Blogger _H_ said...

I think he is crazy. Why would he write an 8 page letter to Bush?

Bush doesn't even read the Newspapers. He couldn't concentrate long enough to read all that.

Jonz. You still don't get me at all do you :-) I am not claiming that this is the gospel. I don't believe every word is some kind of special truth. This is simply what he said and that is all.

I don't believe every word that comes out of the white house and I don't believe every word that comes out of Iran either. Propaganda comes from both sides in equal amounts. Try finding the claim that the Iranian president wants to push Iran into the sea and you will find thousands of such links. Try finding an accurate translation and you see that the context has been warped by our press and governments.

This is balance. It is balance against what you see and read every day and that's why you don't like it.

Nowhere do I claim to support Iran or love Saddam etc (as you have claimed before) but you just have to believe that I do for you can not accept a world that goes against what you have already decided.

I reserve the right to be utterly cynical of anyone as religious as the Iranian president.

Great . thats your right . I assume that also applies to American Presidents who believes that god has told him to solve the middle east crisis




I reserve the right to be utterly cynical of anyone as religious as the Iranian president.

Great . thats your right . I assume that also applies to American Presidents who believes that god has told him to solve the middle east crisis

May 10, 2006 1:24 am  
Blogger jonz said...

At least if the man can adopt the language of the West, he is engaging in the political process.

I know in my heart that the Shia nutters want the infidels in smithereens, but one cannot continue forever in a facade of pretences.

...

Well I'm glad your not an robot for the reactionary left, at least.

May 10, 2006 1:25 am  
Blogger _H_ said...

I suppose thats as close as I will get to a compliment from you.

your correct one cannot live forever in a facade of pretences, but you seem to think that only applies to muslims and not equally to us here in the west.

Ps thats a rhetorical question , please dont answer or you will be here all night :-)

May 10, 2006 1:34 am  
Blogger _H_ said...

correction

Push 'Iran into the sea' should be 'push Israel into the sea'. am getting tired

May 10, 2006 1:44 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That is a very Intelligent letter.Certainly food for thought.

May 10, 2006 2:09 am  
Anonymous Dave (UK) said...

WOW ! Thats a hell of letter. I Think The US will look foolish if they do respond and foolish if they dont.

How can they answer that lot

May 10, 2006 5:00 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can the 'Decider' decypher the big words. or will someone draw him pictures of what it said.

May 10, 2006 5:07 am  
Anonymous Somethingsphisy said...

You can bet Dubya's eye's will never see that letter.

It's amazing, he sounds nothing like the media portrays him, hmmmmm.......

Either way he makes some excellent points.

nice find H,
happy new year!

May 10, 2006 5:23 am  
Blogger _H_ said...

Phishy !!! Great to see you again

Your wisdom and insight have been sorely missed , I hope all is well bud.

:-)

May 10, 2006 5:52 am  
Blogger thepoetryman said...

Just finished reading the entire letter... What an incredible thing of peace! Unfortunately Bush wouldn't understand one iota of his words. How sad that such a dumbass recieves such an offering.

May 10, 2006 6:34 am  
Blogger Invisibull said...

"I could not correlate the abduction of a person, and him or her being kept in secret prisons, with the provisions of any judicial system."

This is a direct quote from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's letter.
I would urge you to check out Amnesty International's, (hardly an American mouthpiece), 2005 report on Iran here:

http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/irn-summary-eng

and then honestly rethink your assessment of the letter.

Don't get me wrong - this letter is a good thing; it's the first time the two governments have directly communicated since the Iranian Revolution in 1979. However, I honestly see nothing in this letter, in light of Ahmadinejad's, shall we say, past indiscretions, which indicates anything more than damage control on the Iranian government's part. Thanks for your time; come check out my spot sometime and keep up the good work.

May 10, 2006 7:56 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Invisbull

Amesty ! Thats a bit shallow considering the Amnesty report on the USA. Of course they have human rights issues,nobody denies that,least of all the Iranians. Sadly the USA has ceased to be an example to the world.

The considering the 'drop a nuke on tehran' talk come out of many quarters in the USA,this letter is almost pure by comparison. Dont believe the hype, the war machine is in full flow in the USA and no amount of reality is going to stop that. I am Ashamed that wisdom is being brought to our leader from Iran. ashamed but not in denial for they certainly have a point.

May 10, 2006 9:10 am  
Blogger Invisibull said...

My point was to simply point out that the letter is more than likely a ploy designed to embarrass the U.S., and take pressure off of Iran in their nuclear development negotiations. I am not interested in getting into a morality olympics tournament; I'm just trying to put this letter into its proper context. It seems a bit insane to suddenly declare Ahmadinejad, who has denied the holocaust and called for the destruction of Israel numerous times, a voice of reason. Will he next be nominated for the nobel peace prize on the strength of a carefully crafted letter? A little sidenote of interest. I happen to have a friend living in Isfahan, Iran - I meet this friend online occasionally and she has very tactfully asked me not to mention anything political about Iran during our chats. Take from that what you will.

May 10, 2006 9:44 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry I wasnt having a go at you Invisibull my point is that he is the voice of reason compared to George Bush but that in itself is no compliment. On your point that he Denied the The Holocaust I can only assume that either (a) you dont speak farsi or (b) your Iranian friend is one of the many that did not vote for him. He said no such thing as every Iranian knows. Like you I have no desire to debate. I just found your amnesty remark funny. Please take no offence

May 10, 2006 10:21 am  
Blogger _H_ said...

Invisibull

just a side note that I am sure you aware of. People are free to discuss politics in Iran.

I follow a huge number of Iranian blogs that are very political, some very critical of the government. They are not harrased any more than we are.

Its probably that your friend is a litttle sensitive or that I miss read your comment.I am quite sure your aware of the freedom of expression aloud inside Iran.

A few such iranians read this blog.

May 10, 2006 10:33 am  
Blogger _H_ said...

PS some links to some quaility Iranian blogs can be found here for those that are interested.

May 10, 2006 10:39 am  
Blogger Invisibull said...

Hi again -

I'd like to quickly point out that the comments i made about my friend living in Iran were soley representative of what she told me. I do not pretend to have any deep understanding of what goes on inside Iran; I can only go by what she's told me. Anonymous, thanks for that link, I'm always happy to have new sources to help me understand the various issues. However,it may be true that Ahmadinejad doesn't explicitly call for the destruction of Israel, he does, i think most would agree, come pretty close to it. Here's a quote from your link:

"We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime [Israel] has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world."

Let's face it - he's advocating the destruction of Israel there, even if he isn't coming right out and saying it.

H - thanks for a running a civil site and thanks also for the links to Iranian run sites - i intend to check them out.

May 10, 2006 10:55 am  
Blogger _H_ said...

Your wekcome Invisibull its much better now I have the posting rules :-)

I suppose it all depends on how you read the quote above. I see no threat to destroy Israel just a desire to find justice for the palastinians.

We must always remember that the foolish talk of Iran attacking Israel would directly harm the very people they are angry for. the Palastinians)

Nukes are not selective. Thousands of Arabs would die (assuming he had such weapons and used them) He would be the most unpopular man in the middle east if he did something so stupid.

It seems to me his anger is not at the jewish people but at the occupied land . the 'occupying regime' he talks of is about the land such as the west bank. not the whole of israel. This point becomes even more clear if you quote the whole paragraph.

I can see how you can read it as a threat to Israel but in context I think our western press has played on key sentences and put them out of context. In the letter he wishes to pray with Jews for a world of peace...

I am not saying he is some lovely kind man by any shot. Just applying some balance which is the simple function of this site

Anyway back to sleep ....

May 10, 2006 11:12 am  
Blogger _H_ said...

PS (still awake)

On the note of language. Remember that this was an internal speach designed for his own people...

We can all fall into the trap of sounding like a maniac to the rest of the world without meaning it

The Operation to free Afganistan was originally called 'Operation infinite justice' as it sounded good to American people.

The shock and disgust of the arab world forced the US to change the name for in their eyes only god can issue 'infinie justice'

we often here politicians saying that we must defeat the oppostion , that the reps/dems are a stain on our country etc ..

what is not mentioned is any desire by the Iranian president to achieve anything by military force.In the context of this letter he is asking for a referedum in the area. Thats a long long long way short of the concept of wanting to start a war and it is dificult to be scared of a man who 'claims' he wants to change the world through democracy and talking..

May 10, 2006 11:26 am  
Blogger Invisibull said...

i really need to sleep but i have just one more thing to say.

"Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world."

He's referring, through the Imam, to a regime, not a piece of territory - I am all for balance too H, I don't think you've seen me praise GW a single time in my 500 or so words (whew). Im merely addressing this so-called letter of peace and trying to express my exceptional skepticism as to its sincerity - off to sleep, more later

May 10, 2006 11:38 am  
Blogger _H_ said...

'He's referring, through the Imam, to a regime,'


yes the regime in the occupied land. again not the destruction of Israel but there removal from the Palastinian land ( I assume the land borders agreed by binding UN agreement made in 1967 )

Still Like i say it depends how you read it and it wasn't for the wests consumption anyway...

Either way Iran does not have any history of starting wars, when they have had the chance to join other arab states in attacking Israel they have never sent their military to fight..

May 10, 2006 11:57 am  
Blogger _H_ said...

As for its sincerity. well only the man himself knows....

May 10, 2006 12:00 pm  
Blogger Hype said...

H, I think he sent the letter, NOT to Bush, but to America. He knew the letter would be read around the world.

He is a teacher and I don't think he is crazy. However, I am not in a position to know for sure. I will give him the benefit of the doubt since my government doesn't like him. Why? Because my government lies to me everyday and is more corrupt than anything I have ever seen in person. The issue about Israel is always going to make Iran look bad but you have to admit they have a point.

-Hype

May 10, 2006 7:54 pm  
Blogger _H_ said...

Oh I agree hype ( you know me by now) , saying he was crazy was just a joke in reference to Bush never reading anything more than a comic

I think it is an excellent letter that makes some very shrewd points 'most' of which i would agree with....

were playing on the same team with this one Hype . and sad though it is I have more faith in the Iranian President than I do in Bush , I wish I didnt but I do .

Thats no compliment to Iran but its a very scary thought for america

May 10, 2006 8:06 pm  
Blogger Toby said...

After reading most of the entire blog this one evening, I've finally decided to enter a comment.

I have a hard time believing that this is the letter sent from the Ahmadinajad to Bush. It may be the one that was released, but the facts don't add up.

First of all, why does the date at the top of the site say June 25, 2005?

Secondly, such newsagencies as CBS, the AP, and the BBC, the letter is between 17 and 18 pages in length. The one you have provided is only 8 pages.

And, what type of source is http://medias.lemonde.fr/mmpub/edt/doc/20060509/769629_lettre.pdf?

I found the exact same letter on usatoday's website. They also claim the letter to be 18 pages long, but only 8 pages are too be found. Something doesn't seem right about the letter...

May 11, 2006 6:52 am  
Blogger Toby said...

oh, and what is with all the "...s"

May 11, 2006 6:55 am  
Blogger G_in_AL said...

Does anyone note the similarity between this miniacle anti-semite's comments about American and the Democrat talking points?

You'd think that major political parties would at least look to see what leading world nut-jobs are saying before they run around in the media and spout their talking points.

Btw, the same tactic that you lefties are suggesting we take with Iran is what was used with North Korea... and look how well that one turned out..

Best of intentions and worst of results is still a bad senario... it just makes you feel better when you go to sleep.

May 11, 2006 1:05 pm  
Blogger Hype said...

awwww, G is comparing the leader of Iran to liberals... how flattering.

better than being compared with killer Bush. Thanks for the compliment.

-Hype

May 11, 2006 2:38 pm  
Blogger _H_ said...

LOL Toby

The reason for the date at the top of the page is simply to put the letter at the start of my blog. the only way to prevent a post appearing on the first page is to change the date and I am sure you understand that placing the letter on the first page would mean I had no room to post anything else.

Just a side note that this blog had not even began on the date you state . It started on the day of the London Bombings.

I respect your choice to believe what you want to believe but in my view your analysis is not very scientific. have you considered that the pages you have seen elsewhere are smaller maybe ?

The letter was released by the Iranian Government to the United Nations for the publics consumption and the source you quote me from above was directly in response to a question about seeing a copy that could not be changed and as you know PDF files can not be changed. It was not my source for the letter it was simply my reply to a question .

Of course if your wild assumption is correct then instead of counting the number of pages you will easily be able to show me (from your many sources) the Huge volume of content you state is missing . but for some bizare reason you have failed to note a single word that has changed or been removed !

AS for all the '...' thats simply means 'and so on' or etc.

Thankyou for your conspiracy it was amusing to read and I hope your research continues towards actually finding a difference in the letters you claim to have read . If you find such a letter please inform us as I would gladly print it.

BTW

You say you have read most of my entire site . Please forgive me if I doubt that, certainly you didn't do so on any single computer for the IP log shows no such event . Anyway it appears you did not even read the sites you 'claim' to quote from

Here is the Letter as printed by the BBC . funny its exactly the same word for word as mine .... and guess what , 8 pages long just like mine , how ironic

I don't normally bother to reply to those who create bizarre conspiracies without bothering to check their facts first. But sadly someone reading your comment may have unwittingly believed that you had actually read the sites you quote from rather than just making things up as you go along .


Very creative though I must say

Btw , ........... :-)

And G

this seems to be the new tactic of the right. trying to connect the thinking of Iran/terrorists/bin laden etc with the left .. very funny stuff. as Hype says .... thank you :-)

May 11, 2006 6:30 pm  
Blogger _H_ said...

PS Toby of course the US Government could also easily proove such a stange claim as yours false or true by releasing their copy of the letter. You and I both know that if there was the slightest chance of making Iran look foolish they would have done so.

May 11, 2006 8:07 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Doesn't anyone think that this letter was made public (if it is actually legitimate), to help "resolve" this diplomatic problem. Please, the Iranian rhetoric in the passed few days is all the same. Iran hopes we (the US) will strike first and is doing everything they can to provoke us. Further, half of the letter could have been written by Howard Dean, Ted Kennedy or any number of so called enlightened liberals. At its face value, it is just another hit and run attack. On a strategic level, it is designed to made Bush look unreasonable and the Iranian's willing resolve this peacefully through talk ... and talk and talk while they refine U-235 and build bombs. Let the memory of Neville Chamberlain live on, are we doomed to repeat history?

May 11, 2006 8:11 pm  
Blogger _H_ said...

LOL Anonymous. The US is the only country off invading other lands and starting wars

the appeasers would be those that refuse to stand up to the bullying of the United States just as they refused to Stand up to Hitler

that would make you part of the chamberlain crowd . maybe you are doomed to repeat that history for it seems you have not learnt the lesson of those that start illegal wars against sovereign nations

PS . another one makes the left/terrorist link. Hilarious stuff, what next , you going to link michael Moore to Alq-aeda , is that the latest instructions from republican head office ?

May 11, 2006 8:17 pm  
Blogger _H_ said...

PPS anonymous

Before you make any more speaches from the land of the John Bolton fan club, Care to show us the actual IAEA report that shows Iran is building a bomb ?

You won't find one for the IAEA have NEVER made any such claim.

I doubt you have spent thousands of hours on the ground in Iran inspecting the sites (correct me if I am wrong) so could you either

(a)show me the IAEA report (in full) that makes any such absurd claim ?

or (b)

Inform me of what makes you more qualified than the IAEA to make such a (un)qualified guess as to the nature of Iran's Nuclear program ?

or (c)

admit that you have no Idea what the facts are and that we should continue to allow the IAEA experts to do the job without all this propaganda from the US government

May 11, 2006 8:27 pm  
Anonymous Dave(UK) said...

I Think he/she will pick (d) Which is to never reply or (e)to reply without answering a single one of your questions.Maybe they will pick(f) which is to use the F word and become abusive.We shall see H.

May 11, 2006 9:01 pm  
Blogger Toby said...

I have never seen anything but the 8 page document.

What I don't understand is why BBC announces that Iran wrote an 18 page letter here http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4752831.stm
but all that is printed on BBC's website (through your link) is only 8 pages. The same can be said for both CNN and CBS.

I know what "...s" mean, but what did they replace. There were three sets of them on the first page. They could have replaced single words or entire pages. I don't know, and you don't know.

May 11, 2006 9:09 pm  
Blogger _H_ said...

Toby

It was first picked up on the AP newswire. My guess is that they all copied the same typo

as for '....' I now 'think' that your talking about the ones in the letter not my constant habit of placing .... in my comments

I dont know but I seriously doubt it implies anything missing. My guess is that its just part of the original

thanks for replying

May 11, 2006 9:24 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey folks, believe what you want until you have deluded yourself into trouble. The US does not behead people; you have more rights and opportunity in this country than almost anyplace else; our press is COMPLETELY free of government interference (unlike the UK and Canada), any one can run for office (unlike Iran) any one can stand across from a funeral of a fallen soldier and heckle their family, you can protest (unlike in China were 5,000+ people were burned in Tenenmin Square); and it seems anyone can come and stay here and partake in our wonderful services; and best of all you folk can leave at any time (unlike the eastern block). The list goes on, but I am sure you libs don't care. You all hate Bush more than you love liberty, freedom or democracy. Clinton bombs and invades a sovereign nation, I guess that was ok (BTW without the consent of the UN or congress). Sadam kills over 1 MILLION people between Iran, Kuwait and his own country… but I guess I am out of touch...

May 11, 2006 11:48 pm  
Blogger _H_ said...

You were right Dave , he/she decided on (e)

Any advice on the lottery numbers ?

:-)

Anonymous. You have the freedom not to read the web sites you comment on too. I am not American my co author is NOT American and your little rant is most amusing. The rhetoric is wonderful but alas your factual knowledge seems to be zero.

Try answering the questions asked of you before you use my web site to spout out republican propaganda.

I asked you a simple question: to provide evidence on your previous comment and as stated clearly in the Posting policy of this site we reserve the right to ask you to provide such evidence of your so claimed facts. We also request you keep your comments on topic which you have failed to do.

If you choose to oblige then I would be delighted to work through your latest batch of non sequiturs one by one and debate the fallacy of your arguments.

I will leave this message here for 24 hours to enable you to comply with this very basic request.If you choose not to reply your message will end up in the void.

Is it to much to ask you to apply courtesy and converse with those who have tried to converse with you ? or do you not have the confidence in your ability to test the accuracy of your own statements.

This is not a political platform for your neurosis. Your welcome to comment as long as you stick to the rules like everyone else on this site.

H

May 12, 2006 12:12 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First I am sorry I kicked sand in your public sand box, but you did make it a public forum. As to the point-counter-point:

For H, the coalition that liberated Iraq (wait, I meant invaded and occupied), was made up of dozens of nations including nearly 60 that participated in one form or another, under UN 1441, with two resolutions from the US congress. If you’re against the preemptive action, that’s fine, I respect that. On the other hand, it is also clear that for the major dissenters for the proposed “force resolution” as asked for by Blair, it has become very clear that there were corrupt influences at very high levels at the UN, France, Russia and to a lesser extent in the UK and Germany. Oil for food anyone?

War sucks. It should not be engaged in lightly. Only history will tell whether the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were liberations or just a continuation of over 3000 years of war and violence in the region.

So far as building a bomb, I have not read the IAEA report and don’t really care to. If you have link, I will look at the relevant portions. The IAEA referred the matter to the UN Security Council and it is not because they are happy with Iran and think they should get a little something extra in their dog bowl. Finally, I have not spent thousands of hours pouring through Iran and inspecting their sites. So what. I have looked at the satellite pictures, listened to Iranian government officials, including those that have admitted that they have successfully stalled the Europeans, gone through a number of Iranian dissident websites. Iranian government reps play cat and mouse, admitting they "have the right" to build a nuke and then retracting the statement or saying the opposite a few days later. It keeps every one confused. The Russians offered to enrich Uranium for Iran to the require 235 level for commercial reactors, the Iranians declined. The subterfuge and obfuscation goes on.

Listen to the leader of Iran. If you are not concerned, you should be. Ahmadi-Najad is frothing up Muslim support from Syria to Borneo, much the irritation of many Muslim leaders. Iran has supported and continues to support terrorist. He has been using religion and nationalism to its limits. Just read that letter, how many times is Christ mentioned? Further, we have one UN member (Iran) publicly advocating the destruction of another UN member (Israel).

No one thought that Pakistan had the bomb, at least not admitting it publicly, until they tested one. On one knew AQ Khan ran a secret network disseminating nuclear information and potentially materials, until he got caught. Oh, did the IAEA report on Pakistan?

Yes, the Iraqi nuke program was basically a mess, but the Libyan program was much farther advanced than previously believed. Yes, Iraq had and used WMD. Did he have anything in March 2003, doesn't appear so. He player a bad hand of poker and everyone lost.

Hate Bush, I don’t really care. It’s a convenient way to avoid the real problems and have serious debate. At least for another 30 months. But I am sure there will be some one else to hate then.

So far as items (a) through (e), they are all the usually “don’t question us, your not qualified” tactic. Go ahead, take my posts down. Show your real colours. I know I will sleep better tonight knowing you and your friends are seeking a solution to these heady problems. This is probably wasted time anyway.

PS: If it makes you feel better, the “f” word is fallacy. Pol Pot killed 2-3 million Cambodians, Hitler killed 6 million Jews and another 4 million undesirables. Stalin killed 20 million Russians. Moa killed 25-30 million Chinese through starvation and the Cultural Revolution. Those numbers don’t include combatants or those caught in the cross fire. Of course, this is all a fallacy. Ahmadi-Najad wants to wipe Israel off the map, that’s only 6,276,883 people. Chump change.

May 12, 2006 5:03 am  
Blogger _H_ said...

its April 28 report, the International Atomic Energy Agency mentioned the UNSC mandate to Iran of last February:

' • re-establish full and sustained suspension of all enrichment related and reprocessing activities,
including research and development, to be verified by the Agency;

• reconsider the construction of a research reactor moderated by heavy water;

• ratify promptly and implement in full the Additional Protocol;

• pending ratification, continue to act in accordance with the provisions of the Additional
Protocol which Iran signed on 18 December 2003;

• implement transparency measures, as requested by the Director General, including in GOV/2005/67, which extend beyond the formal requirements of the Safeguards Agreement and Additional Protocol, and include such access to individuals, documentation relating to procurement, dual use equipment, certain military-owned workshops and research and development as the Agency may request in support of its ongoing investigations.

Despite not being fully in compliance with these demands, Iran maintains that it is in fact fulfilling its obligations under the Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty.

The IAEA found no smoking gun.

Here is its conclusion, which others will not quote for you at such length:

' 33. All the nuclear material declared by Iran to the Agency is accounted for. Apart from the small quantities previously reported to the Board, the Agency has found no other undeclared nuclear material in Iran. However, gaps remain in the Agency’s knowledge with respect to the scope and content of Iran’s centrifuge programme. Because of this, and other gaps in the Agency’s knowledge, including the role of the military in Iran’s nuclear programme, the Agency is unable to make progress in its efforts to provide assurance about the absence of undeclared nuclear material and activities in Iran.

34. After more than three years of Agency efforts to seek clarity about all aspects of Iran’s nuclear programme, the existing gaps in knowledge continue to be a matter of concern. '

This ambiguity is being twisted by the Bush administration to make it seem as though Iran has done something illegal. The report can be read to say that there is no evidence that Iran is doing anything illegal.

In fact, under the NPT, countries do have the right to do the sort of experiments Iran is doing. Most of the complaints are not about substance but about something else

It is the IAEA that is responsible for reporting to the UN security council of violations , There have been no such violations . The IAEA web site can be found Here where ALL the reports can be found . The IAEA had no intention of referring Iran to the UNSC it was the extreme pressure from the US government that forced them to do so

UN resolution 1441 did not in any way authorise the use of force Here it clearly states that their will be further action if Iraq does not comply . as stated by Kofi Anan it was up to the Security council (not the US) to decide what action should be taken. in the words of the UN head himself , 'the war was illegal' and hence it was a war crime .(video of him saying so on request)

your believe in the hype of the western media has made you repeat the claim that Iran intends to use a nuclear weapon against Israel but you seem to fail to note that Palestinians would also be killed in such an attack. You really think Iran will kill the very people they wish to save ? ridiculous concept.

Nobody thought Israel had a bomb either and Israel has not signed up to the NPT at all whilst Iran has complied with the NPT to the letter.

Israel said on Monday that they too wipe Iran off the map I off the map so assume your disgust is equal with them and you are popping off as we speak to advice the US government to attack Israel ? no ? Israel has over 200 war heads , Iran has none , Israel is not a member of the NPT , Iran is . maybe you have picked the wrong horse my friend , for I can assure you that Iran will not attack Israel , but Israel may well attack Iran

Your post can stay for you have admitted that you have absolutely know Idea what the status is of Iran's lawful attempts to gain nuclear power.

BTW it is very difficult to be scared of a man whom wants to sit down with Jews in a monolithic prayer for world peace ...

The rest of your post seems to have no relevance to the subject at hand so forgive me if i do not bother to reply such irrelevance

May 12, 2006 5:36 am  
Blogger _H_ said...

btw as stated this a public forum for those who apply the posting policy of the site. It is not a free for all. and I am especially dubious of those that come spouting wisdom behind the veil of anonymous.

Those that wish to hide behind such things are always the appeasers. those that desire to provoke the next step in the Neocon manifesto so please forgive me if my tone is direct. but I do not take kindly to appeasers for I am old enough to remember what can happen when people do.

and finally on your oil for food bit. Again I dont normally bother to reply to such fallicies but I will ...

The largest oil consignment smuggled out of Iraq took place with US approval just weeks before the April 2003 invasion, according to a United Nations report.

The Independent Inquiry Committee has spent the past year examining the now defunct UN oil-for-food program. The report blamed UN officials and the Security Council but it also faulted the United States and other Security Council members for ignoring violations of UN sanctions.

While US Navy ships were patrolling the Gulf in February 2003, making a show of boarding and searching leaky dhows and small ships, they turned a blind eye to tankers carrying $54 million of Iraqi oil under the scheme on Jordan's behalf, the report said.

A total of 7.7 million barrels of oil was smuggled through the Khor al-Amaya oil terminal in at least seven shipments in February and March 2003, it said.

The sales were arranged by a businessman in Jordan named "Mr Shaheen" who told an Iraqi official he had "the Pentagon in one pocket and the CIA in the other." The oil was bought at a heavily discounted price of around $7 a barrel, the report said. If it had been sold at fair market value within the oil-for-food program, it could have earned $200 million to buy humanitarian goods. "

The illegal sales of oil from Khor al-Amaya came at a staggering cost to the program in terms of potential revenue foregone," the report said.

The 1,000-page report showed shipping records from a tanker included instructions for the ship's captain saying the US Navy was "already aware about your passage and itinerary."
The investigation said the smuggling in early 2003 was "the single largest episode of oil smuggling" under the oil-for-food program and occurred with the approval of the United States government."

"The governments of Jordan and the United States have declined the Committee's requests for interviews and information concerning the smuggling of oil from Khor al-Amaya," the report said.

Earlier this year the chief of staff for the US mission to the United Nations admitted Iraqi oil sales with Turkey and Jordan at the time violated UN sanctions.

Yet more examples of US double standards , they make huge waves at the UN staff who 'abused' the oil for food program , when it is themselves that have commited the greatest crime

I hope your mad at the US for cashing in more than anyone else on oil for food. Its a shame anyway as the US has already taken every cent of the oil for food money and spent it NOT building schools in Iraq... funny , It wa Iraqs money and the Us has spent every cent ...

any chance of a reciept ?

May 12, 2006 6:16 am  
Anonymous Dave(UK) said...

Didn't anonymous miss the 2 million killed in vietnam by the US or does that not fit his hypothesis. Not forgetting the 100,00 plus killed in Iraq for a war they statrted. My Lai oops sorry I mean my my is (f) for forgetful maybe ?

H go with

21 15 43 11 06 27 (bonus ball 5)

May 12, 2006 7:13 am  
Blogger _H_ said...

Thanks Dave , sure fire winning numbers I am sure..


maybye anonymous with his own special reseach and looking at the satellite pictures should contact the IAEA right away to inform them of his finds. Then he can be told exactly the same as Hans Blix told the americans when they handed him intelligence on Iraq , that the information is " 100 % wrong "

It makes me laugh when people think their knowledge is up and equal with the experts. If you rang the IAEA and said , guess what I have been looking at a sat photo and I think i see .... can you Imagine . they would be laughing for weeks

as for his listining to Iranian officials . well he should be able to translate what I am saying here


فاشيست

جمهورى خواه, جمهورى, گروهى, اجتماعى

If he can not then its safe to assume he means that he has been watching TV and listining to the highly edited versions of western translations , hardly the same thing

May 12, 2006 7:53 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

_H_ and Dave,

Everyone can choose to pickup up the facts you like and ignore those you don’t. You can weight each to your personal tastes, fears and vested interest. You can paint a picture in your mind that suites your motivation. And of course, as you did again, you can call others names and belittle them to make your argument. “I bow to your superior intellect”.

I don’t like Israeli policy and have long thought that their treatment of the Palestinians has been horrible. On the other hand, as one who has watched politics and events for the past three decades, as well as studied history and traveled extensively, it is clear that many Palestinians do not have a long term goal to live in peace with Israel.

The US can be both saint and monster. Just as the UK is and has been. I have wasted an hour in this debate if you don’t view Iran as a threat to peace in the region, then that is a shame. We can spent days doing tit for tat on oil for food, who killed who. Picking this section out of this report or that report. So please tell me your practical solutions to these problems.

And finally, I have not logged on because I did not feel it was worth the time to be on one more server with one more ID and one more password. I am not “anonymous” because I am trying to “hide”, it was just easier than plowing through another registration. If you haven’t guessed, I am obviously and evil American cowboy with relatives who died on foreign soil to protect the very country in which you live. As “anonymous” I see the best I can do is see that you are from the UK. So what. And finally finally, you did not answer my question, who are you going to hate in thirty months when Bush leaves office?

May 12, 2006 2:48 pm  
Blogger _H_ said...

Well you were a little late to save my arse anonymous. the battle of Britain was in 1940 you guys were a couple of years late for that ! selective history maybe ?


"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few" ... I think you will find it was the British air force that kept Hitler out of my country whilst you guys were still appeasing

whilst you are remembering saving us you may not be aware that your wonderful help came with a 4 trillion dollar bill which we are still to this day paying your country back. bet you didn't know what a huge profit you made out of saving my arse.

Your comment is offensive to the many Brits still alive that fought to save our country , you did jack shit regardless of how many times we asked you , and when you finally came , you sent us a bill

give me a break and show some respect to those who spent 3 more years than you fighting the Nazis ALONE to save your arse too ..

sheez , is that what they teach you in America !!!

sad

As for whom I am going to hate , well nobody I hope , I judge by actions and behaviour not by political party , do you ?

BTW you do not need to register , you merely need to click 'other' and give yourself a name ...

On the more sensible points of your comment. You may be closer to understanding what we do here.

yes Palestinians also commit horrible crimes , yes Iran is far from perfect , this site merely attempts to put the balance back that is all

do a google search and see how many sites attack Iran for saying Israel could be wiped off the map. but try doing the same now that Israel has said it and you wont find much.

This site is biased (all sites are biased) but the 'other side' have an army of millions of web sites armed and ready to attack Arabs as simply terrorists and Israel as simply correct. this site is not designed to be the complete picture , it is simply designed to be a small counter weight to the masses

I do not think Americans are evil so I am sorry if you assume that's the case .My dear wife grew up in the US and had her schooling their , lovely people who I visit often

As for insults , it was you he came here spouting anti leftist propaganda , what do you expect ?

Finally if you wish to continue to have a one on one debate with me your most welcome , my email is at the side and this thread is purely about the letter from Iran . I can not argue the entire range or American/world policy in a thread about a letter. surely you respect that.

simply put I should have deleted your comment for failing to remain on topic but I showed you the respect to come back and redress what was said. you did so and so hopefully we can leave this thread for those whom wish to talk about the letter.

respect

PS, please do not read my first comment wrong. The US did wonders to help the fight against the Nazis and the world is very grateful for the sacrifice made.

I was simply offended by the weird notion that you saved my country , we did that perfectly well on our on without your help.

One of the proudest moments in our history is the fact that we stood alone against the Nazis and we were there doing so whilst the rest of the world did nothing.

I wish no offence and only respect to your family that came to fight Hitler , you just stepped on nerve for us Brits.

btw when did I claim to have a 'superior intellect'

May 12, 2006 5:17 pm  
Blogger Hype said...

damn fine words H. i think i learned something as well.

-Hype

May 12, 2006 6:16 pm  
Blogger I.:.S.:. said...

anonymous said: "our [American] press is COMPLETELY free of government interference (unlike the UK and Canada)"

It is so sad, then, to not see it use its freedom to the fullest extent.

In defence of the British press, while there actually are legal ways of censoring it (the D-notices, the fierce defamation and libel laws etc.), the British press is like a bulldog on a long long leash, ready to savage any public figure who gives reason for it.

In comparison, the American press, though it has the greatest legal / constitutional guarantees of freedom in the world (though I don't know how those have been affected by the Patriot Acts), often seems like a meek, timid and unquestioning lapdog in comparison.

I generalise, of course; there are some great reporters in America doing a great job of "afflicting the comfortable and comforting the afflicted". Unfortunately, I would guess only a minority of the population reads or is aware of them; for the rest, tar-brushing them as "liberals" instantly invalidates their research and reportage.

Fascinating document, at any rate. I wonder whether Ahmadinejad really penned it himself in English? Can you imagine Mr Bush mastering even his own language to such a degree?

May 13, 2006 1:49 pm  
Blogger _H_ said...

Just to add a side note to the previous well written comment. It seems it will come as a bit of a shock to anonymous that the US is ranked 44th in the The annual worldwide press freedom index. with some very interesting countries that have appeared above them on the list

The following list is in order of the 43 countries in the world that have a press that are more free and more open than the United states

Denmark
Finland
Iceland
Ireland
Netherlands
Norway
Switzerland
Slovakia
Czech Republic
Slovenia
Estonia
Hungary
New Zealand
Sweden
Trinidad and Tobago
Austria
Latvia
Belgium
Germany
Greece
Canada
Lithuania
Portugal
United Kingdom
Benin
Cyprus
Namibia
El Salvador
Cape Verde
France
Australia
South Africa
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Jamaica
Mauritius
South Korea
Japan
Mali
Hong-Kong
Spain
Costa Rica
Italy
Macedonia

Then we get to the United states...

Information source here

Previous Terrorism News Article here

May 15, 2006 1:15 am  

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