Insurgents and Al Qaeda clash in Iraq
The battle was one of several clashes between Al Qaeda and local Iraqi guerrilla groups that have broken out in recent months across the Sunni Triangle.Read more here (4 page article)
What is probably more worrying is the number of people in the world who still do not know there is a difference between 'Insurgents' and 'Al Qaeda' .
posted by _H_ at 12:16 am
14 Comments:
This is terrible news... for the U.S. propaganda machine.
I was watching a week-long documentary series on Iraq War on more4 channel . Great stuff! check the site at www.channel4.com/more4/
the documentary is called Iraq: the Bloody Circus!
I found it quite interesting...
...
Oh, and a comment on your post:
Do you think that Bush can distinguise between insurgents and Al Qaeda??? Or even... Does He really care ???
Terrible news indeed. Nothing hurts a political campaign more than nuance ;)
Memento ,
Yes I have been watching and recording it all , it is great stuff
So many programs of this more4 series are excellent i would really like to put the whole lot online for those without more4 to watch ..
two problems though , (1) the files i have recorded total about 12gb and (2) obviously the copyright issue of putting such videos online
but anyone who can watch more4 (probably just the UK) i would highly recommend doing so
the guys that were willing to enter the 48 hour gitmo must be insain and the program 'why the arabs hate the west' explained the issue so well that only the political blind would fail to learn something about why we are in this mess to start with
Do you think that Bush can distinguise between insurgents and Al Qaeda??? Or even... Does He really care ???
well there is the true story of the time that president Bush was at the super bowl with some arab guests and they were discussing Iraq .....
the arabs became aware during the chat that the president did not even know that there is a major difference between sunni arabs and the shia . This was only weeks before the war started
Blair was the same , he called in top Arab experts on the eve of war and when told of the complexity of Iraq and that you could end up with something far worse than saddam simpy replied
"but he is evil isn't he ?"
As noted by Djeb and stefan this is terrible news for the US propaganda machine , you can't have people realising the difference between terrorists and a legitimate inusgency
I hear that the Salvation Army Reserve is on a Deploy-Ready status. Can you confirm??
"the program 'why the arabs hate the west' explained the issue so well that only the political blind would fail to learn something about why we are in this mess to start with"
I must point out that I didn't see the program in question, but i broadly agree with the assertion that Bush and Blair were ignorant of the consequences of invading Iraq, but I have one question.
Did the program identify Israel as one of the reasons why Arabs hate the West?
If it did then I'm afraid it is another example of the typical Arab anti-Israeli policy, an age-old prejudice with no regard for the truth.
If you explore the history of the conflicts in the Middle East you quickly realise that what is often depicted as Israeli aggression is something else entirely. Muslims in the arab world (and elsewhere) simply want to see Israel destroyed and all Jews in the Middle East 'driven into the sea'.
It was as malicious an ideology in the nineteen-forties as it is today.
Keefy reading your comment i find your view JUST as biased as those in the Arab world that JUST blame Israel
I Have a very good understanding of the Middle East and have spent a great deal of my time trying to understand the issues at stake from all sides
That of course included spending a lot of time actually in the middle east
The truth is someway short of what your describe and it seems your view is more partisan than not
Both Israel and the Arabs have at times acted in a disgusting manner and BOTH are guilty of sickness beyond belief
On why do the 'Arabs hate the west'
a very incomplete list of the main point's raised can be found Here
and some accurate information on the Israeli / palastinian conflict can be found here
I am neither Jewish nor Muslim so it is easy for me to step back and see the crimes of both sides in context
But far too many people seem to see one side or the other as the victim in this .
And especially on the side of Israel there is a ton of false news stories ( often started from the Jerusalem post ) that people accept as being true
Next thing we know such stories as the shooting of Mohammed Jamal Ahmad Al-Dura (the infamous footage of a 12 year old boy hiding behind his father) is replaced with the incredible fiction claiming that Israeli soldiers did not do it after all based on 'research' by extreme right wing Israeli propagandists
where is stories like this fail to make any mark in the world's press
I point out these stories as your view is clearly in favour of Israel
What comes to mind is the words of George Orwell when he said
Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.
And those that seek the truth would be wise to step away from the dehumanisation of each other by Israel and the Arabs and seek the truth which will never be found by listening to one side or the other
Your statement Muslims in the arab world (and elsewhere) simply want to see Israel destroyed and all Jews in the Middle East 'driven into the sea'.
It was as malicious an ideology in the nineteen-forties as it is today. sounds very xenophobic and i hope you did not mean to generalise a whole race of people in such a way
H
"Keefy reading your comment i find your view JUST as biased as those in the Arab world that JUST blame Israel"
I was going to say the same thing, particularly since I have "explore[d] the history of the conflicts in the Middle East."
Hi again,
Thanks for your comments. I am neither Jewish nor Muslim, but I have certainly travelled in the Middle East. I began some years ago by being very Pro-Palestinian in my views (but having researched little about the conflict), but then I started to look into the history of the region (much like you have) and it changed my mind completely. While I agree that both sides have committed horrendous acts in the past, I don't think there is any doubt that Palestinian terrorism targets innocent civilians while the Israeli forces at least try only to target combatants - yet I find the overwhelming tenor of reporting in the UK to be anti-Israeli in tone.
As for the website that you directed me to (IfAmericansKnew.org), I find it to be as one-sided and inaccurate as you probably think i am. Bald statistics cannot provide a rounded description of a situation, just the same as a list of colours cannot describe the Mona Lisa. Just one example - the statistic regarding child casualties is tragic whichever way you look at it - but the Palestinians are known to have sent their children into the front line against Israel, especially in the early days of the current intifada, some (wearing bomb-belts) were told to run at checkposts etc. Israeli's tried to keep their children away from the conflict as much as they could.
While the Palestinians show as little regard for their own children as they do for their sworn enemy, then I'm afraid the number of child casulaties will continue to escalate. I really hope that doesn't happen.
As for my comment about Muslims in the arab world wanting to see Israel destroyed - I realise that not every single Muslim would, and I apologise for the generalisation - but I'm sorry, in my own experience the overwhelming majority in Gaza, the West Bank, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq - do. How many have approached the media, in any form, wishing to express their support for Israel, and their hope that the Jewish state should be allowed to remain in peace and thrive? Surrounding countries have used the Palestinian people as pawns in their war against Israel, from the very beginning.
Ask yourself a few questions - Who exactly was in the land before 1947? Where did the 'Palestinian people' come from? How did Israel end up 'occupying' the Palestinian territories? It was finding the answers to these questions that started me down the road to the truth as I see it.
I understand that you will probably read this post and think 'he's plainly one-sided etc' - but i must tell you, I genuinely want to discover the truth about the situation because it is of great significance to me.
I think many people in Europe view Israel as a right-wing nation, and well-meaning people of left-wing or liberal tendancies are sucked into defending the Palestinian people because they percieve them as being the victims of the conflict. That is how I began after all.
But not now.
Thanks for the opportunity to speak.
The diference between home grown insurgents and Al Kaida should be known to anyone who uses their brains once in a while.
For me it is good news, that insurgents are starting tu fight Al Kaida. Hopefully they will throw them out of Iraq one day. I can't imagine anything worse than Al Kaida gaining power in Sunni parts of Iraq and then starting exporting their ideology to other parts of the Arab world. (Which, unfortunately, they are doing right now anyway.)
keefy
Thanks for your reply and your courteous manner
I welcome your comments here and certainly have no desire to stifle debate by excluding views that are different than my own . You are free to come here as and when you wish to make your point . I only remove comments that are sick and warped such as the "lets nuke Iraq , Iran ' comment by Jeanie ( In fact i am leaving it in place for it actually helps my case more than hinders it )
I would be delighted to go through the debate on a point by point bases with you . you obviously understand the complexity of the issue but in the space provided your not able to provide sources , evidence , facts to back up your claims and to do so here would become an infinite task
You ask questions that I have also asked and I certainly would question the answer's you appear to have come up with and i would be interested in examining the sources behind your opinion
So If you wish feel free to email me from my profile and I will gladly debate the Issue with you .
Please feel free to comment on whatever you wish to on this site , You will probably not find much agreement from me but it would be a pleasure to debate with you ....
Jin
I agree that the worst thing for Iraq would be to allow Al-qaeda to gain control , but to me that just highlights how idiotic the invasion of Iraq was in the first place ,
Secular Saddam would NEVER have allowed Al-qaeda to have any influence in the country
Not that it's that relevant, but I'll lay out my position with a great deal of plagiarise, if you don't mind. I began some years ago by being very Pro-Israeli in my views (but having researched little about the conflict), but then I started to look into the history of the region and it changed my mind considerably.
"I don't think there is any doubt that Palestinian terrorism targets innocent civilians while the Israeli forces at least try only to target combatants"
Oh, there is quite a lot of doubt as even a cursory look at B'Tselem reveals (although it doesn't reveal it at this moment because their server is down). Or Ha'aretz for another example.
As for your claims that Palestinians don't care about their children, it's the sort of baseless accusation we see all the time. I've seen this kind of de-humanising accusation before. The idea that people send their kids out as walking bombs is asinine and needs no response.
"Who exactly was in the land before 1947? Where did the 'Palestinian people' come from?
Sounds like a set up for the Golda Meir argument...
_H_, a comment on your response to Jin: it is the task of the oppressed to free themselves, not for others to go in and do it for them. Sure, we can help, although that's not what happened in 2003 and the U.S. refused to do it in 1991.
Djeb
I agree on both your replies (keefy and jin)
I Hope that Keefy does contact and has the time to debate . For almost all his points i would question .
On a quiet day my reply would have been much more precise but alas today has been very busy on the site what with the one who would calmly slaughter Arab women and children in there millions whilst happily putting up photo's of her own children on her site
now what was it i was saying about the dehumanisation of people
it is just shocking that ' Some ' people in the US really are that brainwashed
on jin again I agree and as per usual thanks for all your comments Djeb , you so often pick up on what i miss and i am grateful the time and effort you put into responding to people here . as well as your posts of course
Thanks
For a woman who is supposed to be a visible minority, her kid is mighty whitey, isn't she? The photo of the woman holding "Kayla" on her birthday is surely white. Is she the mom? Or is this our blue-eyed minority woman? BTW, what kind of nut has a framed Navy recruiting poster hanging in their bedroom? Old blue eyes again. And again.
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